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Lipscomb Panel Paper on Dana Gioia, June 2010, Conference on Christianity and Literature

11/7/2025

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~LIPSCOMB PANEL PAPER ON DANA GIOIA
 
I want to begin by saying there was a time in my life when I hated poetry, loathed it. I should have listened to my preacher, who said that atheists bent on disproving the existence of God often ran straight into Him and became evangelists. Suffice it to say, I once was an atheist about poetry and am now an evangelist, so to speak; and, just as with sharing one’s faith, there are problems in getting out a clear message, especially about poetry. In light of Dana Gioia’s essay “Can Poetry Matter?” I want to consider the divide between poetry and its non-audience, a divide that, though it might always be there, needn’t be so vast or pronounced.

Many have written about this divide, trying their darnedest to shore up the ruins but often sounding fatigued, with little confidence that poetry can gain a wide or wider audience. The problem poetry faces is the problem Christianity faces, the same problem scholars face. We live in a culture of distraction where the possibilities for wisdom or insight are dwindling. We are less interested in anything of depth hinting at eternal questions. Most of my own students avoid slowness or concentration, both of which, I believe, are prerequisites to any encounter with meaning, reflection, the still small voice of God, the power of language and, yes, the experience of poetry. Reading anything, Gioia tells us in a more recent essay, “Disappearing Ink,” “has been overwhelmed by other options for information and entertainment.” We might add that, among the markets competing for our minds, poetry, let’s be honest, is often underwhelming.

I might as well get it over with and say that poetry, among the circles I run around in, belongs to the elite, those with time and leisure to sit around thinking about the meaning of life, arguing about nuance, form, iambic substitutions, and “theory” while everyone else just wants to learn enough to keep a job or get a better job if one ever opens up. Part the divide between poetry and its audience looks strangely like—and might be traced back to—the divide between classes. Dangerous ground, I know, in the no man’s land of assumptions differing classes hold, but we don’t do ourselves any favors avoiding them. Not only does class play a central role in how we talk about poetry—defining it, drawing its boundaries, categorizing its types—but also in the success or lack of success of particular poets, between which ones find a wider audience within the subculture and which don’t. It may be issues of class that explain why one writer is labeled as “regional” while another is ushered into the canon or the pages of “important” journals. The insularity of the poetry subculture Gioia speaks of leads to power brokers, career-makers; and the networking so important to get one’s poems noticed requires money. Submissions to magazines, attendance at conferences, book purchases, contest fees—these can cost upwards of two to three thousand dollars a year, most often with no return on investment, a kind of Ponzi scheme benefiting only a few.  Poetry is a business, and the cost of getting noticed can be prohibitive. 

If it is true that poetry speaks more to the elite than to the other classes; and if it is true that we wish to lessen the divide between poetry and its potential audience, then poetry promoters, the poetry-elite, need to know what they’re up against. Most Americans, it seems, have a profound distrust of poetry, and I sometimes think this dilemma has its roots in how it is often discussed in high schools and colleges. Teachers, like apologists for poetry, are fond of making large claims, holding up poetry as the end-all-be-all of existence. They link poetry with “The Truth,” with “the divine,” with “the breath and finer spirit of all knowledge.” They tell us that poets are the “unacknowledged legislators of the world,” “liberating gods,” the “only teller[s] of news,” or that “men die miserably every day for lack of what is found [in poetry].” I don’t want to dispute these claims, only to emphasize what a turn-off they can be to nonreaders we are trying to convert. No one wants to go out with a braggart tooting his own horn, but that’s what poetry advocates sound like too often. 

Also, to too many ears, the voice promoting poetry sounds condescending. In my experience as a teacher, I have found that apologists, through hyperbolic claims, send messages they probably don’t intend, in essence saying the following: You are incomplete; poetry is complete. You are wrong; poetry is right. You are ignorant; poetry is intelligent. Trying to convert readers, I doubt we’ll get anywhere insulting the worth of our audience’s lives. As poetry-evangelists, we need to stop making pronouncements and instead get down on the level of the average reader to understand what matters to that reader, that is, if we think poetry can matter, or should matter, to certain people. We need to recognize the validity of their lives, their concerns, hopes, desires, and realms of experience, something a lot of contemporary poetry seemingly ignores. 

Additionally, boosterism statements only “preach to the choir.” Poetry promoters, if speaking to potential readers, are still using the language of “believers,” operating under different assumptions, thereby alienating their audience. The insularity to which Gioia has brought attention can be found ad nauseam in discussions and laments about the state of poetry. Pick up any issue of Poetry magazine in the last few years and read the essays in the back, and you’ll get an idea of how narcissistic and whiny we sound to the average reader just stopping in to give poetry a try. I wonder how the divide might improve if poets listened to their non-audience rather than to each other.
 
                                                                   ~~~
 
I teach at a community college. My students relate experiences and assumptions about poetry that should worry and/or disturb practicing poets. This past semester, for example, I asked students to write a few comments about their experience with poetry thus far in life. With this ice-breaker, we grope along together, finding ways to discuss poetry. Assumptions become clear; individual schemas open up; catharsis sometimes happens; frustrations and joys and questions emerge. I like to think the “fear factor” they bring begins to give way to the innate craving we all have for meaning in our lives, the deep distrust yet deeper hope we have in the power of language to get us closer to the truth, to the divine, to the richer, fuller life we glimpse now and then but mostly keep to ourselves—too private and holy to share in a crowd.    

My students responded as students have responded for almost two decades—negatively. One student said,” My experience so far with poetry has been as far from enjoyable as China is from America!” Another described poetry as “very hard to understand, almost like you have to have a certain brain to read it.” Others described it as “sappy,” “Romantic,” “sweet,” “vomit of the mind,” “boring rhyming sentences,” “confusing,” “dull,” “written with deep meaning,” and finally “insignificant.” Poetry, I’m afraid, has a PR problem, something Gioia has been on the forefront of addressing reasonably and practically.

The sentiment of my students, I fear, isn’t isolated. In fact, the January 2009 issue of Poetry featured a letter to the editor from Alice Pillsbury, a member of the Treemont Retirement Community in Houston, TX. She and fellow retirees were part of a study group reading issues of Poetry. Her letter complained about what passes for current poetry.  She wrote,
 
               As it turns out, we cannot make head or tail out of your selected “poems.”  We
               agree that there is no rhyme and very little reason—only phrases, snatches of
               words or thoughts in random order, with very little cohesion.  The poems are
               neither enjoyable nor enlightening.  We feel that we are giving Poetry a fair trial,
               but are dismayed to think that this magazine represents the best of modern poetry.
 
It seems Gioia’s concern about poetry’s ability to “speak to and for the general culture” remains a problem. Nonreaders of poetry—and even those trying to give poetry “a fair trial”—can’t “make head or tail” it. It simply doesn’t speak to their world, nor does it value what they value. 

Gioia attributes poetry’s decline partly to, among other things, its proliferation in journal after journal of only poetry—absent reviews and broader-interest articles in a competitive environment healthy for all genres. Competition for space, he tells us, once insured that poems were published because they commanded attention. He says these poetry-only journals have become places where “one can easily miss a radiant poem amid the lackluster ones,” saying that it “takes tremendous effort to read these small magazines with openness and attention.” After two decades of reading literary journals, I will admit that this argument, though true, doesn’t alarm me that much. I suspect poems “easily missed” matter a great deal to poets trying to build reputations and to critics who see themselves as central to steering the canon, but that, too, is a mindset born out of the elite, who often see themselves in administrative roles rather than as team players, tour guides, lackeys or, if I may be allowed to say, servants. I remember, from my childhood, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts singing, “I don’t give a damn about my bad reputation.” Call me naïve, but poetry might find a wider audience if poets, critics, and teachers took those words to heart. Give up reputation, die to self, be filled, and be witnesses. Just as Christianity teaches us, we serve not ourselves but others—not our careers, but those nonreaders who may yet find a poem that shows them their lives more abundantly. 

Those journals, by the way, are full of all manner of poems—abysmal, weak, competent, engaging, arresting, stellar, and even radiant. More especially, those journals contain poems that can and do expand the audience for poetry. I encounter them all the time, and I teach them in my classes, radiant poems like Marilyn Nelson’s “Worth” and Bob Hicok’s “So I Know” and Amit Majmudar’s “The Elevator Operator”; and some of my students, by their own admission, never get over them. These students become “new creatures,” so to speak, remade in an image they did not foresee or think possible.     

In case I’m not clear, let me say that I am on their side—my students, the nonreader, Alice Pillsbury, the reader frustrated with contemporary poetry. Too often I am fed up with “poetry,” at least the prize-winning poetry leading voices tell me should matter. The role class plays can be found in the assumptions and biases that determine whose voices lead, whose follow. If we think of a journal such as Poetry as a leading or prominent voice, then we might be bothered about its prospects for expanding the audience for poetry. While too many poems make little sense, the reviews are either platforms to advance an agenda, a chance to demonstrate erudition and wit, or little more than marketing masquerading as reviewing. It’s hard to believe anyone reading the reviews can hear a human voice finding and showing what might matter in the work at hand. 

The same problem exists online. The website Poetry Daily perhaps carries poetry to a larger audience than, say, Poetry magazine could ever think about doing. As a poet and teacher, its inception excited me. After a while, though, it seemed only marketing for poets, journals, and presses who dominate the poetry world in the first place. Then another website, Verse Daily, cropped up, and a hierarchy settled into place again, with Poetry Daily being “official” and Verse Daily being “second tier.” As a teacher trying to ignite students to read poems, I no longer tend to push Poetry Daily because its selections frustrate students and expand the divide between them and poetry. Verse Daily, on the other hand, seems to have the opposite effect. Students find poems there they simply like, understand, and connect with. Even among the growing audience of poets in my town, some of whom have gone on to publish, Verse Daily matters. As one local writer said, “It looks like they pick good poems instead of names.”

Likewise, Ted Kooser’s website American Life in Poetry, providing free columns to newspapers in America, has a more accessible poetry, appealing to a wider audience.   Nevertheless, leading voices look upon his venture condescendingly, as they do upon Kooser’s work. Though he won the Pulitzer prize and served as poet laureate of America, he is still considered mostly a “regional” poet. When Kooser won the Pulitzer prize, I remember one poet saying, “He’s such a lightweight.” Criticism of his work and his website’s selections often use words like “homespun” and “regional,” but are these characterizations based on a desire to expand poetry’s audience or on a desire to narrow the boundaries of what kind of poetry matters? Strangely, his column closely resembles Nobel Prize winner Czeslaw Milosz’s anthology A Book of Luminous Things, with its brief commentaries. Milosz, with the clout of the Nobel, is respected and praised while Kooser, homespun Nebraskan, is snickered at and called a lightweight. Though I might prefer Milosz, if I want to convince nonreaders to read poems, to get in on this good thing, I don’t show them Milosz, not at first—I show them Kooser. 

Neither Milosz nor Kooser may have chosen the poems we’ll live with for centuries, but one has to wonder about the power and cache a name lends to a project, how a name becomes a lens through which we look and assign value. As I remember, once, a friend of mine roundly disparaged a poem I’d written, calling it a series of nice but random and unrelated lines with no coherent argument. Then, a few years later, the same poem appeared in the New Republic, (accepted by then poetry editor Charles Wright who just happens to have been born in my home county, a fact I was careful to point out in my cover letter, which is probably the only reason he read my submission in the first place). Suddenly, to my friend, this same poem was one of my best. Having forgotten his earlier remarks, he read the poem through the lens of its already mattering, stamped approvingly by The New Republic. In short, assuming the poem “worthy” gave the poem worth. 

“Can Poetry Matter?” Gioia asks. The sad answer is that for too many poets, and this goes to the problem of widening poetry’s audience, the answer depends on who says it matters. You’re basically a big deal if the right person says you are, if the right journal or anthology publishes your poem, or if the right press publishes your book. Otherwise, your work “can’t matter,” at least not to the insular world of poets. An editor I know said she was publishing poems by a certain poet even though she didn’t understand or really even like the poems that much.  “I see his name everywhere,” she said, “so he must be a big deal.” For the potential reader, though, a poem either makes sense or doesn’t, no matter what credentials or backing the poem has behind it. My students ask a few central questions: does this poem make sense? does it tell me something worthwhile? and can I relate to it? If not, they move on to Ipods, 4G Networks, “Dancing with the Stars,” Fox News, the next Taylor Swift song, and the list goes on and on.    
                
Gioia, to his credit, has stood at this intersection before, calling attention to the divide between “popular” and “literary” poetry. Earlier I mentioned Ted Kooser. Gioia highlighted his work two decades ago, calling his poems “uncommonly entertaining” and “unsurpassed in articulating the subtle and complex sensibility of the common American.” He lamented that the “public whose values and sensibility he celebrates is unaware of his existence” and that he had not received “attention from academic critics.” Gioia points us in the right direction if we are serious about addressing poetry’s marginal status in society, but the fact remains that poets (literary, lauded poets, the elite) will first have to address the kind of poetry that they marginalize, as well as to define who their target market actually is. Do they really want a larger audience, or do they want to broker reputations? Even Gioia’s descriptions of “general readers,” “a potential audience of almost five million” of what he refers to as “our cultural intelligentsia,” is somewhat striking for its exclusivity. Can we not find a poetry that satisfies both audiences—the common reader and the elite—a kind of poetry that appeals to the common American by being entertaining while offering poetry insiders and critics a deeper, more thorough engagement with the same poems?     

The answer, if my experience at a community college is any indicator, is yes.  Each day I read a poem to my composition classes—something by poets as varied as A. E. Stallings, Tony Hoagland, Bill Brown, Kay Ryan, Gaylord Brewer, Danny Anderson and others. I ask students simply to listen. We don’t discuss the poems, only let them open up a space for language to happen and for us to be attentive. I choose poems, not poets—what works, not reputations. Louis Gluck, Robert Pinsky, out. Linda Pastan, William Stafford, Philip Levine, in. Geoffrey Hill, out. William Logan, not a chance.  Wilmer Mills, Jane Kenyon, Andrew Hudgins, in. John Ashbery, no matter what Harold Bloom says, out. My students admit being surprised that they “get” and better yet “enjoy” these poems. One of my former students, who came out of a trailer trying to make a better life, said that I came into class the first day, opened up a book, read a poem, and she suddenly felt “the hinge of her life” turning. She is now a middle school English teacher, an advocate for poetry. Another student, a former truckdriver, can’t get over the fact that he now reads poems. It’s like his whole identity has been swapped for another one he used to make fun of. “I never thought I’d be the kind of person to read a poem,” he said one day.  

The problem, though, with discussing class is how not to be dismissed by established poets since the line between what’s popular and literary is so firmly entrenched. A few years ago, Dana Gioia and August Kleinzahler squared off in Poetry magazine, answering whether or not Garrison Keillor’s anthology Good Poems was, in fact, “good” for poetry. While Gioia spoke of the anthology’s “inclusion of neglected writers,” saying that it was “full of discoveries,” Kleinzahler called the anthology “comfort food for the philistines.” Elitist as this comment sounds, later, when he refers to Keillor having “strayed off the reservation,” one has to wonder what his real motive is.  Some poets should just stay in their place? Keillor’s anthology has plenty of poems to convert nonreaders, and one gets the sense that Kleinzahler is more troubled by the fact that Keillor has a say in the matter than he is by the poems selected for inclusion.

I’m sure Gioia knows the land mines he’s stepping on when he uses words like “plainspoken” in his description of Keillor’s choices, noting that the poems rely not so much on “verbal music” to be memorable but on “storytelling.” Kleinzahler, on the other hand, says that the “typical Keillor selection tends to be anecdotal, wistful.” Where one sees storytelling, the other sees anecdotes; where one sees poems aimed at “ordinary human purposes,” the other sees poems “offer[ing] the masses reassurance and diversion.”  Kleinzahler explicitly widens the gap between poetry and the wider culture when he states,
 
              Are we not yet adult enough as a culture to acknowledge that the arts are not for
              everyone, and that bad art is worse than no art at all; and that good or bad, art’s
              exclusive function is to entertain, not to improve or nourish or console, simply
              entertain.
 
I’m not sure at what point a poem moves from entertaining to nourishing, anecdote to story, but Kleinzahler does mention appreciating “enlightened selections of the work of well-known contemporaries” such as C. K. Williams, a poet, I might add, who writes anecdotal/story-based poems some would call nourishing, except that he won the Pulitzer prize, which must make his anecdotal/story-based poems “enlightened” and “entertaining”—though, thankfully, not “sentimental” or “philistine.”           
 
                                                                    ~~~
 
            As we move forward—assuming we can—we might be mindful of conditions that have the potential to lessen the divide between poets and their audience. First, in much the same way that Jesus came along and challenged existing power structures, the internet has the potential to redefine whose voice matters. I’m not equating the internet with Jesus, only suggesting that it may redraw the boundaries of whose voices matter; in the future, it’s likely that poets will begin to emerge who could not, and would not, succeed within the current paradigm of publishing. Under the current system, a poet sends poems to journals, hoping to make it out of the slush pile and be recognized, pulling whatever strings he or she can to get noticed. It is easy to imagine “leading” journals and voices being superseded by personal websites featuring audio and video.  Isn’t the moniker “regional,” for the most part, a matter of distribution, and can’t the internet make available those poets whose books are not found in Borders or Barnes & Noble?  

Second, poets need to get their own house in order before asking visitors in for a visit. Though there have always been questions of integrity concerning contests, prizes, grants, etc., these issues have lately shaken the foundations upon which careers are built. Conversations among poets reveal a lack of faith in the systems of poetry, that is, book contests, conferences, journal publications, anthology representation, awards, prize nominees and recipients. Few seem to believe anymore that success or recognition is based on the merits of the work; instead, the poetry world resembles the “real world,” i.e. backroom deals, nepotism, spin, and politics. To what degree such realities are true or not, pervasive or not, depends upon whom you ask. Nevertheless, the perception of impropriety has caused many poets to lose faith in ever finding an audience. Meanwhile, amid the bickering, the divide widens. 

Third, poets can’t ask to be read if they do not read other poets. Gioia may have observed twenty years ago that the primary audience for poetry is other poets, but in the years since his essay, the poets other poets read may have narrowed so much that it’s likely most poets have not even heard of most other poets, much less read them.     

I once told a poet that his physical appearance resembled another poet, and he said, “Who?” 

“You know, Poet A,” I said, “who wrote x, y, and z.” 

“I’ve never heard of him,” he replied.  

I was shocked, since the poet I was speaking of taught at a neighboring university less than 45 miles away from where the two of us were standing. He was the author of seven books, two prize winners; his poems appeared regularly everywhere; he was even an editor and several-times contributor to the Pushcart Prize anthology. How could his name go unrecognized by another poet living so close by? If I have an alarmist button to push, it’s this one: how do we expect a wider culture to read us if we don’t even read each other? 
           
                                                                        ~~~
 
​Gioia’s essay, which came out while I was in graduate school in the early 90s, prompted much discussion between my poet friends and me and probably, without our being too aware of it, gave us direction, a mandate. While I agree with most of his essay, I sometimes think that what he describes as a problem—namely “the legions of teachers, graduate students, editors, publishers, and administrators…the primary audience for contemporary verse”—has the potential to become part of the solution as well. Gioia’s influence has been to prompt MFA-minted teacher-poets, like myself, to grapple with his central question: Can poetry matter? The answer, of course, as William Stafford once said, is yes, no, or maybe. So much depends upon how we position the wheelbarrow, toward whom we point it. “[T]he legions of teachers [and] graduate students,” who may be “a relatively small and isolated group,” as Gioia calls us, can play a vital role in expanding the audience for poetry. Given that so many of us, as inevitably had to happen, found jobs not at elite institutions but at community colleges, encountering almost 12 million students a year, more than twice as many as the “cultural intelligentsia” Gioia mentions, it is likely that we are, completely under the radar, rewriting the ground the poetry-elites walk upon. No matter what poems we are told matter, or can matter, or should matter—by the journals, contests, publishers, critics, and anthologies—each of us makes his or her own anthology. I’m just one person, who remembers Jesus saying “Whatever you do to the least of these…,” one person who has already converted more than twelve, plus all the ones they have converted too, a kind of reverse Ponzi scheme reclaiming poetry for average Americans. Who knows how many of us have wandered off the reservation, ignoring the boundaries that were drawn for us. Who knows how many of us have already abandoned the syllabus.            
   
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TO SHARON OLDS

4/5/2024

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For most of the past thirty years, I have taught a poem of yours titled “Late Poem to My Father,” which appears in your third collection, The Gold Cell. While other readers—and rightly so—have gravitated toward other poems in that collection, including “I Go Back to May 1937” and “On the Subway,” I continue to return to this poem.
 
Full disclosure: I heard you read from this book in October 1989, as your signature and date indicate inside the book I bought when you visited Austin Peay State University during my junior year. In the previous four semesters, I had attended my first poetry readings, each in its own way providing me with a larger understanding of the role of poetry within the life of an individual. That night you were serious and playful, what someone later would call sacred and profane, and having grown up in a Baptist church, I embraced the sacred but tried, of course, to avoid the profane.
 
I remember, after the reading, saying something to you about how several of the poems you read traced time backwards. In one poem you named geological ages vertically down the edge of a cliff. In another poem, about your father, you flew across country to be at his bedside but then went backwards into his body back to before you were even born. The pattern happened enough times that it caught my attention, but also something about that desire to go backwards in time resonated with me and still does.
 
In “Late Poem to My Father,” you go backwards, trying to imagine the life of your father not as the grown man he was when you were a child but, instead, as the child he once was in “unlit rooms,” “mov[ing] through the heavy air / in [his] physical beauty, a boy of seven” while his own father sat silent in front a hot fireplace. The scene is ominous, fraught, full of tension. Though not clearly stated in the poem, this boy appears to have suffered trauma which, later, as a man, he copes with by drinking an “oily medicine” and eventually dropping down unconscious.
 
At the end of the poem, you say, “When I love you now, / I like to think I am giving my love / directly to the boy in the fiery room / as if it could reach him in time.” That “fiery room” is like a kiln in which “the mold by which [he is] made” hardens, except that, with love reaching him, perhaps he might be saved, rescued, preserved, formed in such a way that the "tiny bones inside his soul" don't become, as the poem says, "twisted in greenstick fractures." Such an interesting thought: his own child's parental love might extend back through time, creating a different mold than the one that ultimately shaped him.
 
Yours was the first poem that gave me the thought of imagining a parent as the child the parent once was, the circumstances surrounding a parent’s formation. “Late Poem to My Father,” I dare say, has given some readers a way to forgive their own parents, to look upon them with tenderness, imagining earlier childhoods that shaped their own.
 
I wonder if poetry can be a way to “go back” within time’s continuum to find a purer, more innocent, more loving reality, where the soul is not fractured, where we all might begin again—untainted, undaunted, reinvented, re-formed.
 
Who, now, can any of us be, since it’s possible, despite the children we once were, to look through parental eyes at our own parent, thus to help heal the child inside that parent, the innocence that might still have time to mature into a whole new definition of time?

Ever your fan...


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TO BECKIAN FRITZ GOLDBERG

3/31/2024

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Your poem “If I Were in Beijing” was among the first poems that ever stopped me cold.
 
In fact, I still remember the day I read it in the office of my mentor David Till at Austin Peay State University in 1989. As co-editor of Zone 3, he took great pains to lay out each issue where the journal’s arc flowed seamlessly, thematically, holistically from poem to poem. Sometimes this process took him an inordinately long period of time, the managing editor ever pressuring him to give her the final copy.
 
That’s why, when a particular poet pulled a two-page poem at the last minute (days or weeks before the journal was to be sent to the printer?), he was distraught. This two-page poem was the perfect lead-in to the journal’s feature section, a series of poems by Coleman Barks, and now, possibly, he would have to reorder everything.
 

Then, in the way Till’s mind worked—sifting, parsing, mulling-over, making connections—he suddenly had a solution. He pulled me aside in the hallway and asked if I had been successful in publishing my poem titled “Good Boys” yet. He had remembered the poem from a batch I’d shared with him in some previous semester and wanted it for Zone 3. It wasn’t a two-pager, though, so he would still need one more page. He asked me to gather twenty pages or so and bring them to his office that afternoon.
 
I sat there as he poured over my poems, reading each one like a monk studying some ancient text. An eyebrow would lift, a moment of recognition or insight. He nodded, titled his head, sighed audibly. I had no way of knowing what he was thinking, nor did he say. He continued reading, searching for that one poem to fill the desired page in the journal.
 
That’s when I turned to a stack of submissions he hadn’t returned to the Zone 3 office yet. That’s where, in that half hour of watching my mentor decide on my own poems, I happened to pick up a submission of your poems and began reading to pass the time.
 
When I read “If I Were in Beijing,” I immediately knew. I knew this poem was the poem, the one I needed to hear, to inhabit, to think through. Though I was an English major, I was a Marketing minor, already struggling to reconcile these two disparate parts of my brain. “I live in a fat country / with salesmen who do their own / commercials,” the poem began. Everything is marketing, ideas, propaganda, and these—unlike a tank—make the enemies, or terrors, we face that much more difficult to notice.
 
I read the poem a second time. Then I read it a third time. I must have been doing my own David Till moment of living inside a poem, seeing it from every side, thinking through its music, its lines, its line-breaks, its logic, the leaps it makes, the argument unfolding. “Wow!” I finally said out loud. “This is the poem,” I said. “This is the poem, and it might be a two-pager, and if it is, toss my poem out and keep this one instead.”
 
Till said he’d already been through those submissions and hadn’t found anything. “You missed this one,” I said, a confident twenty-one-year old telling my mentor he’d overlooked a real keeper.
 
He set my stack of poems aside and said, “Read it to me,” so I did.
 
IF I WERE IN BEIJING
 
I live in a fat country
with salesmen who do their own
commercials, who don’t know what to do
with their hands—hang, point, hitch
a ride in the suit pocket. Usefulness
is a bitter mystery. And it is such a simple
country. Stars flag the sucked in black
hills of night. Summer stops
breathing when you listen. Or the stars are
a thousand deer tails lifted and
disappearing. You can sail down the tunnels of
radios from opera to blues. We would each
 
love a revolution. A better cause than just
the old dying. A priest said to my husband
the other day, “Frankly we’re all sick
and tired of hearing about the holocaust.”
I suppose he meant we must keep cruelty
alive to understand it. Keep it personal.
For him it’s Nicaragua. The abortions.
His country where the souls of the unborn
fester like sweet fruit we do not eat.
 
If I were in Beijing I would be the student
facing a tank. If I were in Russia
I would be the poet in the gulag.
If I were in Argentina I would be
sewing the names of the disappeared
into my shawl and wandering the plazas.
But too often I am in my own childhood,
its silent movies, its fish thrashings of light.
Too often I am buried in the clover of the silence
of my own house. I do not know how long
it is before the dead stop counting. I hold
my breath. Each heart must find the terror
it can deny is like its own.
 
That’s how your poem came to find a place next to my poem in the Fall 1989 issue of Zone 3.
 
I’ve lived with your poem now for almost thirty-five years, counting it as one the most central poems of my earliest influences. I often wonder about the mystery of how one poem as opposed to another crosses our paths. Would I have found your poem if another poet hadn’t pulled a two-pager from Zone 3? What is our “usefulness” as poets? What does it mean that “[e]ach heart must find the terror / it can deny is like its own”? Is poetry a kind of “revolution” against “a fat country”—the America of 1989 or the America of 2024—and if it is, can we ever really know what we’re up against?

How "simple" is our country now?

In trying to answer these and other questions, at least your poem all these years has been a constant companion so that whatever I face, I feel even more bold than I felt as a twenty-one year old. 

​Ever your fan...




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To Earl S. Braggs

3/29/2024

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A poem of yours to which I’ve returned for many years is “This Yellow City” (from House of Fontanka). The poem begins as follows:
 
Van Gogh could’ve been born here or Van Gogh could’ve
lived here or Van Gogh could’ve died here but he didn’t
and he didn’t and he did not
 
stop here to paint this yellow city yellow.
 
I suppose there’s no explaining why one poem versus another seems to stick in a reader’s mind (or what its presence sets in motion in that reader’s formation). I’ve always said that, as poets, we have to let matter what matters to the reader to whom it matters. In fact, I’m often surprised (or perplexed) by poems of my own that readers take to themselves. So be it, though. We can’t really influence, much less determine, which poems resonate with readers. "The Yellow City" is just one such poem of yours that I've taken to myself and lived with for many years.
 
For me, I’m drawn to the speaker’s loneliness and wandering within a city not his own—that sense of displacement but also of connection. Maybe I, too, in my seeking after art, have this constant feeling of displacement and connection, and maybe that’s at least one reason I feel a kinship with this poem. I’m also drawn to the color yellow repeated so often throughout the poem, and I’m drawn to the poem’s use of repetition, a kind of music that both anchors the poem but also gives it a sense of soaring—a characteristic found throughout your work.
 
Plus, what does it mean that Van Gogh didn’t “stretch his canvas here to paint this yellow city yellow”? What does it mean that he “could’ve”? Are there places in the world—even major cities like St. Petersburg—we will never experience in their fullness because we live in the absence of what someone’s art might have brought to our understanding of those places? Through whose revelatory, miraculous eyes have we not seen the world? Can part of our loneliness be traced to the poverty of perspectives we hold?
 
Thank you for being one such perspective through whose eyes I get to think about existence. Without “This Yellow City,” I would not quite know myself in the same way. With “This Yellow City,” I carry a companion with me in my own wandering.   
 
I’m curious: is there a poem of yours which now, after many years, you reread and find important in ways that an earlier version of yourself overlooked as central to your emerging body of work? Is there a poem whose implications, especially after decades of writing poems, deepen in ways that now surprise you? Has the poem come alongside you, an unlikely companion, but one which, now, you can’t imagine not having nearby as you continue your walk?
 
Ever your fan…

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Jeff Hardin Key Note Speaker at 6th Annual Poets Day

5/21/2022

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Jeff Hardin Book Launch with Redheaded Stepchild

5/1/2022

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Book Trailer for Watermark, Jeff Hardin's 7th collection of poetry

3/11/2022

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Dave Etter

1/13/2022

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Dave Etter, the Spring 1987 visiting poet at Austin Peay State University, did not match any preconceived ideas I had regarding what a poet should look like or talk like. Approaching 60 at the time, Etter resembled a former linebacker—squat, husky, and gruff. In the author photo on the back of one of his countless books, he sat in a simple folding chair out in the yard, squinting into sunlight, a pipe in one hand and a glass of Jack Daniels in the other, the half empty/half full bottle on a table at his side.
 
His was the first creative writing class I took as a beginning student. Back then we were on the quarter system (10 weeks), but those two and half months set a tone and an approach toward writing poems that remain part of my DNA. Etter expressed a genuine fascination with our attempts at poems and made writing them feel like the most ordinary thing one could do. For someone like me, coming from a small town in west Tennessee, I had never met a grown man who wrote poems until I stepped onto that campus.
 
Etter was ordinary in the best sense of the word. He didn’t come across as an academic—just a man in love with the marvelous simplicities of existence and this gift of language that could be profound and quirky at the same time. His own poems explored the speech patterns, images, and interior lives of small town people—each a vignette that, taken together, approximated an investigation into the human psyche. Though not a formalist, his poems, at times, have reminded me of the tight, explosive poems of E. A. Robinson, another poet whose portrayals of individual lives have become central to my own.
 
Etter gave himself fully to laughter, even in the middle of class, and found humor in the slightest turn of phrase. Our class sat around a conference table in an historic house—formerly the college President’s house—though by then the mansion housed the Honors program. We were a motley crew of misfits by comparison, a crowd of hoodlums mistakenly let into a museum. Informal and nonchalant, we erupted too often into laughter, and I imagined professors in their offices down the quiet hallways biding their time until the hoi polloi went on their way.
 
Weeks into his term as visiting poet, he gave a poetry reading to a packed auditorium, and he even read a few of the poems he’d written during the preceding weeks, a couple of which he had shared with our class. He wasn’t just “the teacher,” but at all times he gave the impression that, like us, he was still a student, a participant in class, willing to write with us, willing to share new work alongside us. He made us think that the poem to be concerned with, the poem to be excited by, was not the one published somewhere in a literary journal or collection of poems but the poem before us at the moment, the newest work, the language just emerging.
 
In that faculty reading, though, about half way through, out of nowhere he began talking about John Wayne, “the Duke,” the macho man of Westerns that had come to define what a man’s man looked like and sounded like. Then, for whatever reason—maybe for the novelty of it or for the laughs or maybe to make a point about masculinity—he began reading several poems in John Wayne’s voice. Perfect swagger, perfect pacing—a spot-on impersonation. One could imagine him sitting next to Johnny Carson, doing impersonations. The effect was dizzying, hilarious, and perplexing. Maybe the poems had more gravitas, each poem a fictional voice from a small-town life suddenly speaking with a recognizable, authoritative voice. Perhaps we were supposed to reconsider what manliness could sound like.
 
In a letter once, Dave said that only real men wrote poetry and that all the twerps were in insurance and sales. He could be blunt like that, and one could never be certain if he was trying on a statement for the sound of it, to test how true or untrue it was, or whether he really meant the sentiment.
 
Anyway, in addition to studying English, I also studied Marketing, but in the end I steered clear of that world.
 
I gave myself fully to poetry. 
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    Jeff Hardin is professor of English at Columbia State Community College in Columbia, TN.  He is the author of six collections of poetry, including Fall Sanctuary  (Nicholas Roerich Prize, 2004), Notes for a Praise Book (Jacar Press, 2013), Restoring the Narrative (Donald Justice Poetry Prize, 2015), Small Revolution, No Other Kind of World (X. J. Kennedy Prize, 2017), and A Clearing Space in the Middle of Being. 

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